Long before knowing what it meant to be a Communist and even longer before knowing that one day he would become the General-Secretary of the PCP, Jerónimo de Sousa learnt with his older comrades at work. They opened his eyes to what exploitation meant, initiated him in the reading of Avante! and encouraged him in the struggle, through the pages of forbidden books. He was an activist before he became a “card carrying activist”, and he marched down the road of a revolutionary at the service of the people in the same natural way in which he cemented the convictions that today give strength to his words. Of himself, he says that he is not a finished product and that he owes everything to the Party that has now given him the responsibility of an office which he takes on as the expression of a collective will and for a collective work.
An interview by Jerónimo de Sousa to the Avante! less than a month before the general elections. A battle of the whole Party, he says, because “without a stronger PCP and CDU in the Assembly of the Republic [Parliament], there are no credible or good solutions for the country”.
A militant in the Party
"Avante!" – This is your first interview to our newspaper as General-Secretary, recently elected following the 17th Congress. Let us begin there: What does it mean to you to be General-Secretary of the PCP?
Jerónimo de Sousa – It is a great and honourable enhancement of responsibilities. I always believed that in our Party there are no members of different categories. At most, there are different responsibilities, and to be elected by my comrades represents a commitment to this Party. This party has considerable weight in Portuguese society, for its role amongst the workers and our people. In order to assume this responsibility I am counting on a great confidence in the Party collective.
"Avante!" – Besides succeeding Carlos Carvalhas in office, you follow the tracks of remarkable personalities in the life of the working class movement: Bento Gonçalves, Álvaro Cunhal …
Jerónimo de Sousa – Yes. Naturally, I never thought I would be General-Secretary of the PCP. But there was no natural solution. As is known, there was a process of creating a solution. This responsibility only makes me have a greater militant purpose, a greater commitment, a great confidence in the solidarity and help from my comrades. Because, as you understand, I am not exactly a fully-finished product, I continue to learn within the Party. What I know, I learnt within the Party, and I have the feeling that, if there is not solidarity and militant help, it will be very hard for me to discharge this responsibility well.
"Avante!" – What would be a “natural solution”?
Jerónimo de Sousa – A natural solution is, for example, what happened before, when comrade Carvalhas spent two years as Deputy General-Secretary.
"Avante!" – A gradual handing over of the baton?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Yes. This time, taking into account that comrade Carvalhas considered that it was time to give up the responsibility he held for twelve years – and I want to note that the comrade accepted the most difficult task that can be given to a Communist militant and he fulfilled it – we had to find another solution. It was a process of great collective debate, of internal debate, a process in which we had to assess all the cadres that we, luckily, have in the Party. For me, for example, there was another solution …
"Avante!" – Which one?
Jerónimo de Sousa – I am not sating that, even to the Avante!… But I presented alternative solutions that luckily exist within our Party. However, the decision was different and naturally, I accepted it.
"Avante!" – Have you already met with comrade Álvaro Cunhal?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Yes, and it was a very good meeting. As you know, the comrade is enfeebled, physically and in terms of sight and movements. But his brain continues perfect, well organised, he remains a person who pays attention to the Party and to life. Even in relation to the electoral campaign that we are organising, and despite the fact that he is enfeebled and unable to contribute to the Party with his participation, as he would have wished. But it is remarkable to watch his power of reasoning, the freshness of ideas in a man of that age. He continues to follow the situation with concern and with joy. For example, he expressed great joy with the holding and conclusions of our 17th Congress.
"Avante!" – You joined the Party in the midst of the April Revolution …
Jerónimo de Sousa – Formally, yes. As you know, I come from the area of Santa Iria, a working class area. After finishing primary school, the logical and unrelenting fate was the factory. The son of a factory worker would always be a factory worker, regardless of his abilities. As soon as we entered the factory, we contacted the older people, we began to hear about the Party. There was no other, it was the Party of those who resisted, the Party that was identified with the struggles, the causes and the wishes of the workers. To hear about the Party was a natural thing. [As was] the first contact with the small-sized Avante!...
"Avante!" – Did you have to swallow any [to avoid getting caught]?
Jerónimo de Sousa – No. But I can quickly tell you a story. I am a good card player. The older people, in the evenings, went to the tavern. There we no leisure places then. And they would not let the young people into the taverns at night. But they opened an exception. They would let me in and in the middle of the game, bring out the Avante! and read it, well, in a conspiratory way. After reading it, they would hide the Avante! again and continue to play cards. And award me the prize – letting me stay to watch and play with them.
"Avante!" – It was a different game …
Jerónimo de Sousa – It was a different game. I learnt a lot in that card playing “college”. There too, we tried to discuss politics through our underground Avante! There is a whole previous course. For example, the older people guided usto reading. At the time neo-realism was very present. It was interesting that the craftsmen and foremen began to give us books by Soeiro [Pereira Gomes], Alves Redol … Later on we would read Mother, by Gorky, that was another stage… And we carried on shaping our awareness through the knowledge of exploitation and of its nature, at the same as we read, took part in cultural clubs, in movements on literature and theatre. That was our education. Later on there was the colonial war. A time when, there too, I took the Party’s opinion and guideline to the soldiers’ barracks…
"Avante!" – Were you in the war?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Yes. In Guinea [Bissau].
"Avante!" – Was it hard?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Not at the beginning, because I was in a special unit. But, due to those conversations in the barracks, I was punished and sent into the jungle, to the area on the Senegalese border. The political police had infiltrators in every company and it took measures… Upon returning, the Party contacted me to form a broad slate to try and win the Lisbon Metalworkers Union. As you know, Marcelo Caetano [the last Prime Minister of the Portuguese fascist regime] lifted the lid a little, enabling elections to be held in some Unions. The Party betted on those who were not “burnt”, those who had not yet been arrested. The Party put its stakes on the youth, those who stood out among their working mates, who were honest, able, even on a professional level. And so we formed a slate that stood in the elections, and won, in 1972/73. I was then receiving guidelines from the Party. Through José Ernesto Cartaxo, who also worked at the MEC [factory], who worked with me; through comrade Bento, who is presently a full-time Party officer.
Well, then came the 25th April [1974] and one of these comrades said to me:” Look, you have to go to António Serpa [Street in Lisbon, where the PCP’s first legal headquarters were located]”. And there I went. I walked in, it was the Party’s headquarters, there was a great bustle, as you remember, in those April [1974] days, and I approached – I came to know later – comrades Domingos Abrantes and José Magro, who looked at me and said, “You now belong to the first Loures Municipal leadership and to the Party’s organism for the Metalworkers”. I was surprised. Is this how you join the PCP? Obviously, it had to do with those previous contacts, with those links that I already had with the Party. So, there was a formal link in May 74, but the real link had existed long before.
"Avante!" – Had you read the Party’s Constitution and Programme?
Jerónimo de Sousa – No. I had read some works by Marx, by Lenin, but I was not someone with a great theoretical knowledge. I had a connection with life, knowledge of the reality. And I kept on learning.
"Avante!" – So, you did not have to read neither the Party Constitution nor the Programme to know that this was your place …
Jerónimo de Sousa – That’s it. I remember, for example, that my first Marxist lesson was when I arrived at the factory and the oldest man, a welder, asked me how much I was going to earn. I said it was ten escudos a day, and he answered: “You are being robbed. You come here to make thirty, you produce thirty and you are only paid ten. The other twenty stay in your boss’ pocket”. I immediately felt robbed! This is what I consider my first lesson on surplus-value.
"Avante!" – You were a young worker then. Do you still feel you are a worker? How do they see you, in your neighbourhood, now that you are the General-Secretary of the PCP?
Jerónimo de Sousa – With great identification. I am one of them. Besides, if you go to Pirescoxe, you don’t have to ask for Jerónimo, just ask where the comrade lives. That’s how they call me, not only the Party members, but even people without a political party and some socialists. I was already an MP in the Assembly of the Republic and there they always saw me as one of them. Even taking into account the prejudice that exists in Portuguese society in relation to the workers and the people with degrees - with people thinking that workers are not capable, that they can’t even speak properly - I believe that, to them, I was a point of reference. In other words: “Do you see, one of my kind is as capable as the people with degrees”. More than a party-political question, it was a question of class solidarity.
"Avante!" – Do these bonds still exist, or not? Because there is this idea – there they are, locked up in the Soeiro [Pereira Gomes Street Central PCP headquarters], knowing nothing about what goes on around them …
Jerónimo de Sousa – Of course I can no longer play in those games that take place on weekends, but I continue attached to the people who know me. Now there is a different sociological reality. There is already a luxury condominium in town. But we continue to share the news shown on television, like my visit to Aveiro, to Madeira, the rally, the Congress. They see in me someone who is their equal. It is the status they give me. They expect me to go there whenever I can, have a coffee, chat a little, listen to opinions. I think it is very important to preserve this bond.
"Avante!" – Do you go shopping, to the cinema?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Presently with more difficulty, but I go shopping whenever I can, to the market, to the supermarket. It is not a question of campaigning or showing off. Those who always saw me there, consider it natural. I can even say that I consider it important. As you can imagine, when I became an MP, I had difficulties in the technical-legal field. And I believe it was decisive for my attitude in the Assembly of the Republic, and before that, in the Constituent Assembly, to have these permanent links to life and to people. Besides the usual work in the Party organisation, I never gave up the link, I kept listening, getting to know the feelings, the concerns, the problems, learning a lot. And then I went to the [Parliamentary] rostrum and expressed this knowledge. I believe it was a great advantage.
"Avante!" – Coming back to April [1974] and to the revolutionary process. Those were times of struggles, of victories, of hopes. Did you ever lose this hope?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Never. It is a hope anchored on convictions. Looking at the world, at the reality, taking into account even the class origin, there is a growing proof that this hope, this confidence has grounds. It is not a case of mere utopia. During these thirty years, in the good and bad moments, in the defeats and in the victories, I never lost these convictions and this hope, taking into account our project, the justness of this project of social justice and change. It is here that I anchor our hope.
"Avante!" – Life has taught us that it is not easy to be a Party MP in the Assembly of the Republic. Some of those who have been there were carried away by the “sweet charm of the bourgeoisie”. What is the “secret” of resistance?
Jerónimo de Sousa – First, we have to take into account the Party we have and the kind of Party we are. I always assumed my [Parliamentary] mandate belonged to my Party, thatit belonged to the PCP’s militants and sympathizers who elected me to that responsibility. Then, there is the fact that it is a house with its very own rules, which attracts and provides visibility. Living in that glass dome can obviously make you forget what you should be doing there and those who elected you. Secondly, and perhaps here may lie the “key to the secret”, there is the permanent link to life, to problems. That which we say in a speech must then be materialized in the Assembly of the Republic – conveying the drama of the worker with wages in arrears, of the sacked worker, of a community that is fighting for a certain goal, going there, understanding, learning and then, intervening. And always within the framework of the Party itself. It isn’t always easy... Imagine that one day my younger daughter said this to me: “You will have to buy me some brand sneakers, another hifi system, and this and that”. She “placed an order”. And I explained that the family budget couldn’t pay it. And she said, “But at school they said you are rich, that you are an MP and that you earn a lot”. And this isn’t easy. We would all want to give a hifi. But this deep conviction that we are there to serve the workers and the people, to serve our Party, gives us a great strength to explain, to convince. Today, my daughter, who is now an adult, has her DVD, and is a PCP militant. This deep feeling that we are not there because of the colour of our eyes, that we are in fact carrying out a task of great responsibility, that we face political opponents who would like to lead us to some kind of aggiornamento, who try to “embrace” us: the journalist who gives us the possibility to appear on the front pages, on television… The “key to the secret” of these twenty years has to do with the understanding you have of this Party, of those who elected us, of the fact that MPs should be the voice and the expression of the aims, the hopes of our people. I believe that all this led me to always feel good as an MP. And it should be noted: even our enemies respect us more when we are like this than if you forego this ideal and this attitude.
"Avante!" – The Communist parliamentary group coped with many battles. Among the more recent ones, for example, was the battle fought against the Labour Code…
Jerónimo de Sousa – That is a concrete example of this link with life. Our Party solved a problem that is the dialectics between mass struggle and institutional action. The institution, the Assembly of the Republic, can bring forth mass struggle, and the mass struggle can and should influence our activity in Parliament. When we saw the content of the Labour Package, we went to the workers, to their organisations, to alert, to expose its content. This action led to a mobilization that even led to a general strike. And then we were in a position, in our fight in Parliament, to use this great argument – the workers’ militancy, their feeling of rejection and struggle against the Labour Code.
The Code was adopted. But we have to stress that, on various issues, the right-wing had more draconian positions. For example, in relation to collective bargaining – what is written is bad, but we have to remember that the proposal was to set the counter to zero, that all existing contracts would no longer be valid, that we would have to bargain everything from scratch! The result was not as bad, due to the struggle. It is not a case of whitewashing the Code, which continues to hold great misdeeds and must be repealed, but without this struggle, we would surely be worse off.
"Avante!" – This struggle of resistance has been fundamental, during these 28 years,…
Jerónimo de Sousa – We are in fact in a time of resistance against an offensive that, although not new, has a new characteristic due to its size and scope. That is, it is a political, economic, social and cultural offensive that even targets national sovereignty, accompanied by a major ideological offensive. So, in an international situation in which the balance of forces is highly unfavourable for the workers, the progressive and revolutionary forces, and in a national situation where, not only the right, but also the Socialist party have joined this offensive, we can say that this phase of resistance is fundamental. If there was no resistance by our Party, by the workers’ and Trade Union movement … We can say today that democracy is impoverished, has suffered blows in several aspects. But it would be very difficult, or even impossible, to speak of democracy if there had not been this struggle of resistance.
"Avante!" – Can we already talk about the reconstitution of State monopoly capitalism?
Jerónimo de Sousa – The situation points in that direction. The role of finance capital is becoming decisive. It is overwhelming political power itself, concentrating in its hands the key levers of our economy, placing the State at the service of its interests, of its profits. It is not just a question of a political power that is submissive: today, economic power has taken its seats in the recent governments. This is perhaps one of the most worrisome realities, which violates our Constitution, which clearly states the prevalence of political power over economic power. Now we don’t have a right-wing government bowing to big business, we have capitalists as Cabinet ministers, holding political office.
"Avante!" – The attacks on democratic rights have intensified. We can recall the law on political parties, the recurrent bills to change electoral laws, which essentially target the PCP. Is the Communist Party still a danger?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Yes. Particularly for the parties more to the right, but we can say that even the Socialist Party considers this Party a danger, due to its class nature and its identity. I don’t think these parties want to illegalize the PCP. They want a PCP integrated within the system, which accepts the exploitation of man by man, which accepts the dominant system as something impossible to change. And even just because a Party insists on the idea that social change is possible, there are parties like the PS, PSD and CDS/PP that are trying to take steps, through legislation, by force, through state interference, in order to destroy its essential traits. They do not want – and this has been said! – the PCP to disappear, to go underground, but they cannot stand the project of the future that it stands for, they do not stand that the Party continues to consider that capitalism is not the end of History. And so they adopt laws, like the one on political parties – clearly an interference by the State in Party life. They do not want the Communists to decide on the life of their own party. They would like to have an adapted party, integrated within the system. I believe that this is the greatest danger because, after a first step of this kind, we all know how things begin but never how they end.
A historic Congress
"Avante!" – So we can conclude that our revolutionary project is up-to-date. Is the PCP a different party?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Different, without any doubt. In the first place for this very reason, different from all others – from the PS, PSD and CDS/PP – because these are parties that are part of the system and defend it. Even the Left Block, which is a party of this or that cause, a party which depends on the media, a party of conjunctures, has no project for social change. You could say that this means that our Party is isolated, taking into account the national reality. But we base our analysis, our convictions and the defence of our project on what our country is today, what the international reality is today. We often hear that there was never so much hunger in Portugal, since [the] April [Revolution]. As elsewhere in the world! We have, for example, the dramatic situation of unemployment, of attacks on rights that seemed everlasting. That is, it is life that shows the validity and relevance of the reason of being of our identity, our nature and our project. One of the main theses of our Congress is precisely that the issue of the class struggle remains the great issue of our times.
"Avante!" – Coming back to the Law on political Parties. Did the PCP’s reaction to the adoption of this law fall short of our members’ expectations?
Jerónimo de Sousa – I think that there was a problem that we weren’t able to solve. Everything seemed to revolve around on the imposition of the secret ballot. But this is only one issue, and it may not even be the central issue. The real issue is the absurd interference of this law in our internal affairs. Based only on that idea, many democrats, many trade union leaders, considered that there was no harm in this, because in their associations, their organisations, a secret ballot is as natural as the air we breathe. Why in hell was the PCP against the secret ballot as a norm of democratic functioning? This issue neutralized many wills, we were left very isolated in this battle, and the context in which we waged our struggle may have been the reason, in the first place, why we did not manage to mobilize the Party and, on the other hand, bring the Portuguese society and the democrats to see the danger which this precedent posed. We were not up to the struggle against this iniquitous law. We believe that, after our Congress, this matter has been settled, much to the chagrin of some people. And just because the secret ballot was settled in this way, we should not make this the alpha and omega, but rather continue to prove that this law is about much more than this. That it is bad for democracy to try to prevent by such means the freedom of organisation, the functioning of the members of a party, imposing a “harness” that may today be used on the Communist Party and may later serve in a more general way. It continues to be a danger and we must continue this battle. We have included it in our electoral program.
"Avante!" – The Party is frequently accused of not being a democratic party. However, all you have to do is witness our Party Congresses and initiatives to assess the great democratic participation that, in fact, exists within the PCP.
Jerónimo de Sousa – The elements involved in the preparation of our 17th Congress are the best proof against this mystifying and false theory. More than twenty thousand members participated in the debate of the Theses, in a serene, but at the same time, passionate debate on the goals contained in the Political Resolution. The way we elected the Leadership, how we prepared and debated it, involving regional organisations and different organisms in debating the election of the Central Committee - this is our method, which should be compared with other parties – and this is an important aspect – where the boss decrees …
"Avante!" – As General -Secretary you have no quota [for appointments] …
Jerónimo de Sousa – Luckily! Because among them, it is the boss who defines the political guideline, decrees the election of the leadership. It is the viewpoint of the boss, who gives orders. On the contrary, the Party involves its members in the preparation of the Congress, in defining the guideline; and the organisations go about constituting their own leadership. Besides, on the question of the general-secretary, contrary to others – for example in the PS it is said: the general-secretary was chosen by secret ballot, but it was the only right the socialist militants had! To cast their vote for the person who later decided what policy and what leadership they would have. Among us there was a great debate. We are of course a revolutionary party, with only one leadership, only one guideline. But in relation to our detractors and the fractional group, what an example we had, where a small group – I believe there are a hundred or so in the leadership and not all were even aware of the deal done with the Left Block which harboured eight or nine of them [in its electoral slates]. In a meeting with seventy people, where forty approved this entry in the Block, twenty voted against, ten abstained, and they are already thinking about forming another movement. But it is essential to outline that the “democrats”, those who spoke about a lack of internal democracy, gave an example of what they stood for. It is not by chance that they are in disintegration, because, after all, it was a platform of passengers in transit to an uncertain final destination. Life, with its severe judgement, will show that what they really wanted was a Party without its characteristics and its nature. I believe that the preparation and the holding of the 17th Congress, its conclusions and decisions, the way it ended, the way our Party is today, shows that we are a profoundly democratic party. We are naturally dissatisfied with this or that aspect. But it is incomparably different, for the better, in relation to other parties but also to these “prophets of democracy”, who not even in small groups can solve problems in the way we do.
"Avante!" – As for the “prophets of democracy”, is it a closed subject or is there still a possibility of closing gaps in relation to some? Is it fair to lump them all together?
Jerónimo de Sousa – I think that the Party should treat in different ways that which is not the same. At a certain historic moment, the fractional movement managed to federate some discontentment – justified or unjustified. At certain moments, some Party members were attracted to these people. But we cannot treat in an equal manner that which is in fact different. Besides, in this electoral campaign, where we have been travelling all over the country, I have to say that we see attempts of rapprochement by Party members, who discovered that after all it was a great mistake and are now in a phase of drawing closer to us. These are different situations. I think that there are lost cases, those who followed a path of no return. But the Party must also be very attentive and reconsider the recoverable situations and attitudes.
"Avante!" – The 17th Congress gave new life to the militants and the organisations. Some even speak of a historic Congress…
Jerónimo de Sousa – The strongest message of this Congress was the great assertion of the Party, with a leadership capable of this assertion. In the preparatory phase there were those who announced our demise. Or worse: “You capitulate or you die” … And what the Congress demonstrated was that the Party is well alive. It is important to say that the Congress did not solve any of our great organisational problems, the growth in our influence, the strengthening of our intervention and activity in the workplaces. But the Congress has created conditions to do so, particularly in view of the great feeling of Communist confidence, surrounding this Party and this project.
"Avante!" – This is a feeling which one can breathe throughout the whole Party, namely during the electoral initiatives …
Jerónimo de Sousa – Yes, and there is no exaggeration in saying this. When I referred to fifteen districts and the autonomous regions, in all initiatives, the degree of participation by the members – not the one who comes just to participate, but the militant who is thinking on how to help the Party – they were very strong initiatives, the meetings of cadres in Oporto and the Alentejo, for instance, were in fact impressive, with hundreds and hundreds of cadres, with a fighting spirit and this feeling of confidence. We saw this in reality, including in the Alentejo, where, as you know, there are organisational problems. To have three hundred and fifty cadres with a fighting spirit is a sign that the Party must interpret and that confirms this confidence.
"Avante!" – Would you like to recall some of the central ideas of the political resolution?
Jerónimo de Sousa – One central idea is the need and the conditions that the Party has to strengthen its activity, its intervention and its organisation. When we state, «Yes, a stronger PCP is possible!», the Congress expressed a thesis that is: difficult does not mean impossible. Looking at our frailties, the existing ebbs, the Congress confirmed, also as a result of other major national initiatives, that it is crucial for the Party, in the near future, to strengthen its action, its organisation and its intervention. The integrated concept we have that the organisation is not there just for its own sake or just to exist, but to act and intervene is perhaps the most important battle. The updating of membership files and the campaign of contacts is a decisive initiative to strengthen the Party.
There are two objective and subjective difficulties. When we say that today there are a million workers with precarious labour links - that is an objective difficulty. When we witness the destruction of our productive system - that is an objective difficulty. When we witness the destruction of great bastions of working-class consciousness – Bombardier, Lisnave, Steelworks, everything that was destroyed and where the Party had great organizational presence – this brings great difficulties. But the great message of this Congress is that: we have to take into account that there are hundreds of companies with more than a thousand workers, working-class concentrations, for example in Aveiro, Braga, as well as in Setúbal and Lisbon, where if the Party invests, if it takes risks, if it takes measures to strengthen our activity with the workers, the Party can in fact grow.
"Avante!" – And what about the fear among many workers – of joining the Union, of coming out as Communists …
Jerónimo de Sousa – This is a major hurdle. But, for example, we were in Aveiro a few days ago, at the gates of a factory, in a CDU initiative. And the women workers made it a point to leave the canteen and gather around the loudspeaker car, showing their solidarity and support for the CDU, because they were those who, outside election campaigns, helped them in their struggle. These were women workers who, five years ago, were more afraid of the PCP than the devil of the cross. They were not unionized. They did not exercise their rights. The company was threatened with closure. The workers reacted. They joined the Union. The Union began to take action. The Party was there with them, with leaflets, raising the issue in the Assembly of the Republic and even in the European Parliament. And it felt so good to witness this demonstration – you were with us, we shall be with you on election day. People with whom it was impossible to talk just five years ago. And now, in front of the boss, they left the canteen,
crossed the road and came to show their support for CDU. Without this daily work, it would of course be an impossible mission. It is here we shall find the chance to grow. Contrarily to other Communist parties, who mistook difficulty for impossibility, who sought different lines, and other priorities. And who ended up losing. Even on an electoral level.
"Avante!" – The vast majority of our members are still employees, workers and white collar workers. Is the class nature also safeguarded at the leadership level?
Jerónimo de Sousa – The composition of the Central Committee assures this and I believe this is an important aspect to preserve and to strengthen. With all the due value, and I stress this, that the Party gives to its intellectual cadres. I am one of those who think that the Party needs the intellectuals very much. It needs revolutionaries who, despite their origin, can and should participate in this great project.
"Avante!" – But isn’t the Party losing intellectuals?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Regarding our influence among the intellectuals, apart from objective factors that create many difficulties to our Party life, the loss of our collective image with the defeats of socialism in the East had consequences for the militancy, the commitment and participation, even for the identification with our project, by many intellectuals. On top of this, the strength of the ruling classes’ ideology created the idea that capitalism was the end of History, that it was possible to civilize it, that the great goals of the working class had been achieved, that the issue of the class struggle was more diluted. All this, together with the activity of some, right here in our midst, had its influence in some areas of intellectuals, and led to a decrease in our influence. But we continue to have excellent intellectual cadres, who cannot be underestimated. It is important to see, for example, the lists of CDU supporters…
"Avante!" – That we publish in this edition [of Avante!]…
Jerónimo de Sousa – This shows that this Party continues to have in its midst, and is also a source of attraction for, great personalities among the Portuguese intellectuals. From this reality and taking into account the world we live in today, looking at our world, these men and women who love their country, who love their people, who love the great causes of social progress and social change are in a position to see that we are right and that they should join our ranks to strengthen the Party. I also believe we should not wait for them to come. One of our lines of work is a new commitment by the Party regarding this area.
"Avante!" – When all these issues of an ideological nature arose, shaking so many “structures” of Communist parties around the world, was there not a lack of a profound debate within the Party?
Jerónimo de Sousa – We sometimes act defensively. With all the turbulence that existed at the time, some of our Party leaders of the time did not seek a healthy discussion of these problems, and they were many problems, but rather placed themselves in a situation of rupture and fraction. Giving the impression that it was a movement by intellectuals, trying to subvert and pervert the Party. This led to a somewhat defensive stance. But I believe, now that this problem is clarified, internally, that we should depart from this defensive stance and assume an open, frank, debating position, analysing reality, the problems and the importance of their contribution. We have to be more audacious.
"Avante!" – We have been announcing progress in the recruitment of new members. But they persist in portraying us as a doomed Party…
Jerónimo de Sousa – They couldn’t understand that we had no generational fracture in the Party. And this Central Committee, in its composition, shows that we try to merge rejuvenation and renewal with experience. When we say: “we have 17 new Central Committee members under 30 years of age”, it is a fact. There is now a new theory: “They are young but already think like the old …” The Party has been finding, particularly in the field of recruitment, young people, a group of cadres of great value who, today, including in the Political Committee, hold great responsibilities – responsible for organisations, even in the parliamentary group. And so, harbour no illusions. It is obvious that we need more. This is not a party that is getting old. But, fortunately, the old ones are still here…
"Avante!" – Speaking of this, what about the JCP, their contribution to the struggle?
Jerónimo de Sousa – The JCP [Portuguese Communist Youth] has evolved in what we consider a very interesting way. Today it acts and works among the student youth, but is beginning to have a new role in its attention for, and activity among, working youth. And I believe that here the JCP can strengthen its influence among the young strata. Of course, their struggle for the great issues of teaching, education, are more prominent. The situation that the youth face in terms of unemployment and exercise of rights is an area where the JCP has to invest more. It has great prestige, is widening its influence, and has been at the forefront of the struggle, for example on the issue of tuition fees, but also, recently, in the struggle against precarious jobs. And this has had results.
The vote that makes a difference
"Avante!" – The country is in a crisis and perhaps this will be the central theme of the [electoral] campaign. All political and social forces refer to this. But, besides the different assessment of the causes, we find a great coincidence in the solutions proposed by the parties that have carried out a right-wing policy …
Jerónimo de Sousa – About the crisis, it is important to demystify a notion that everybody talks about – that around the corner there lie sacrifices for all. A few days ago we heard the president of SEDES say that the country was ungovernable. The very same person, who in his role as Chairman of the Union of Banks, said some months ago that the year 2003 had been very good for banking! In a game of mirrors, the same person defends two theses! In fact, someone must have profited from the situation. Not everyone made sacrifices … The workers, the small and medium sized entrepreneurs, the old-age pensioners, the families, they made sacrifices. But there were those who got away without any. And got away quite well!
The second notion that must be demystified is that apparently the situation we find ourselves in results from bad luck, from something strange happening to the country, for which no one is responsible. However, there are people who are responsible for the crisis. Real-life governments – now PS, then PSD, alone or together with the CDS – were responsible for this situation. They governed based upon prescriptions that did not result and now appear, first, to deny any responsibility and, then, to present more of the same medicine. In the end, what do they propose? An obsession with the deficit, the “need” for radical cuts in important social areas such as health, social security and education; the idea of more privatisations; no reference to the valorisation of our productive system and of national production; total silence in relation to agriculture and fisheries.
We say there is no other solution but to break with the old policies of the right. This is a crucial matter for the elections. Because it would be dramatic even for Portuguese democracy if this time, instead of the PSD, we should have the PS essentially carrying out the same policy. The General-Secretary of the PS, in relation to the great structuring issues, in the economic and social areas, proposes more of the same. When the Socialist Party wants this absolute majority and speaks about government stability, it wants to have free rein to carry out the same policy, without changing course.
"Avante!" – We, the communists, have a different opinion. Are the Party’s proposals on this matter – namely in the economic area (you already spoke about increases in wages, retirement and other pensions) – realistic?
Jerónimo de Sousa – We stand, in fact, alone. But I would like to remind you that we were also alone, for example, on the [European Union’s] Stability and Growth Pact (SGP). We warned the country then about the social consequences and the consequences to our economy of blindly accepting the draconian measures imposed there. And, at the time, the PCP was accused of once again just criticizing. But today we see that all - some more timidly than others - say that the matter of the SGP must be reconsidered. Some talk of “flexibilisation”, others of “renegotiation”. But it is proved today that what we said was true.
While they get together to consider the deficit and the matter of expense as the alpha and omega of their solutions and prescriptions, we consider that, although a problem, it is not the problem. The problem lies in our economy and in the need for its growth and development. Namely, we consider that public investment should not be counted as expense. That you should go around the Pact. Like the Germans, who had no problem whatsoever in doing so – they, who were one of the parents of the SGP. The right and the PS defend that we shall “go there” only through negotiations. It is a factor. But not the only one. The growth in domestic consumption, namely by valorising labour and the workers, by raising wages, namely the minimum wage, increases the domestic market. And it should be said that we are talking about hundreds of thousands of companies that need this domestic market in order to survive. And, naturally, if the people have no money, if the people do not have purchasing power, they cannot help these small and medium sized companies find a solution to their problems. The problem is that the right-wing and the PS are always thinking in terms of the big economic groups.
"Avante!" – Do you think that this SEDES study appeared by chance?
Jerónimo de Sousa – No. What it aims is to “wash peoples’ brains”, lead them to conformism and fatalism. Convince them that nothing can be done and that we have to choose the “lesser evil”. Inculcate in the minds of the Portuguese that there is no way out but to continue to make sacrifices. In terms of timing, this document appears within the framework of the right-wing parties’ discourse, saying that the country is doomed to backwardness, to lose its national production, doomed to the ruin of small farm productions, doomed to the bankruptcy of thousands of small and medium sized companies.
"Avante!" – Don’t these measures applied by the right-wing for decades result from the straitjacket of the European Union?
Jerónimo de Sousa – Unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. We hold the European Union responsible for its role and stances in relation to Community policies, which have tremendous consequences for our country. We talked about the SGP, we could talk about the WTO, the CAP [European Union’s Common Agricultural Policy]… But this does not free [national governments] from responsibility for the economic policy that has been executed. For example, concerning the CAP, they are “disconnecting” aids to production. We have 340 great landowners who receive a payment of €12.000 not to produce. On the other hand, the small farm productions, with a noose around their necks, cannot sell their products, nor do they get Community aids to develop their production. In Spain, for example, the production factors are supported by the State. They invest in production and not in mere subsidies. And we are not referring to a revolutionary government … When we refer to negative and neo-liberal measures, we cannot also forget
that the parties with governing responsibilities have done everything to accept, without any criticism and blindly, guidelines that harm national interest.
"Avante!" – Is it possible, in case more CDU MPs are elected and without a PS absolute majority, to open the way for an agreement?
Jerónimo de Sousa – I think the PS does not want it. But it may be forced to do so, it may. This [election] is about electing 230 MPs. There is going to be a new balance of forces in the Assembly of the Republic. We are convinced that the right-wing will be in minority in Parliament. If the Socialist Party does not have a majority it can form a government. But it needs the Assembly to approve its program. And the big issue is that if the PS gets an absolute majority, then that’s it – it will do what is already apparent; if the PCP and the CDU grow in votes and in [Parliamentary] seats, the PS can be forced to inflect on many policies. And let us not deceive ourselves: without a stronger PCP and CDU, the PS will not change. And even with new strength, we shall have to see if that is enough … Anyway, we believe that, even within the PS, many people will understand that without a stronger PCP and CDU in the Assembly of the Republic, there are no credible and good solutions for the country. This is the great challenge.
"Avante!" – During the Congress you said that the PS puts the question the wrong way around. Instead of demanding that the PCP should change, it should be the PS who has to change and adopt a left-wing policy…
Jerónimo de Sousa – That’s logical. A party which claims to be of the left cannot ask a party of the left to change to the right. They are the ones who have to change. When we say this it is for reasons of political reasonability. Now, every time [the PS General-Secretary] Engineer Socrates opens his mouth we cannot rest assured. On the contrary. In the economic field, in the social field, in the European policy field, besides some trickery and many omissions, there are statements that cause us deep concern. But this stresses even more the idea that a stronger PCP and CDU are needed. I repeat: the PS will do what it can; if it can do much, it will do it badly. If it has to negotiate and come to an understanding with us, it can do better.
"Avante!" – Are the policies that the Party considers necessary indispensable for a left-wing policy?
Jerónimo de Sousa – The great social causes are also a frontier zone between the left and the right. What does it cost the State – speaking once again about the deficit, in expenses and revenue – to change the Labour Code? A Code that has already proved to be a great hurdle to collective bargaining, with dramatic situations in whole areas, which were not able to negotiate. Here is a measure, which “does not cost any money”, but is of great social importance.
"Avante!" – The Trade Union Centrals negotiated with the employers to solve the problem of bargaining …
Jerónimo de Sousa – What is a declaration of intent, does not bind anyone much. But this agreement has an aspect that should be stressed. It is the employers themselves who recognise that the Code was an obstacle to collective bargaining. If that is so, here is a good measure for the future Assembly of the Republic to take. And we shall present it as one of our priorities. On matters of health, on social benefits, we believe that it is perfectly fair to increase the minimum wage; to increase the wages of public employees, who saw their wages greatly dilapidated during the past few years. They say, well, but where shall we get the money? If they have this miserabilist vision that with low wages and low pensions we “shall get there”, they are wrong. These are the great causes we defend as immediate proposals that a government, with a conception of progress and of the left, would naturally accept. The big problem is if the PS sees it this way.
"Avante!" – In these weeks of pre-campaigning how do you evaluate the impact of our initiatives?
Jerónimo de Sousa – There has been a very positive impact. After the Congress, we expected it. But we had something new – a feeling of affection for the PCP and CDU. I can tell you that I did not meet a single provocation in all the initiatives I took part in …
"Avante!" – But [these initiatives] have been silenced …
Jerónimo de Sousa – A lot. Very beautiful events, with great impact, large-scale events – these in particular – have not been reported.
"Avante!" – Which gives a greater importance to militant activity …
Jerónimo de Sousa – To militant activity, and also a more important role to our Avante!. In this campaign, in my opinion, what will be decisive is our Party collective, this generous force that emerges, ready to participate in the battle; and the issue of information. Not through television or other newspapers. Our Avante! can give a valuable contribution to the campaign and to achieve our objectives.
"Avante!" – Are you confident of a good result?
Jerónimo de Sousa – It will always be an unsatisfactory result. I think we deserve a lot for what we have done in the Assembly of the Republic, for the Party’s role among the workers, among our people. Any result will fall short of this great work, of our great commitment in the struggle for a fairer, more progressive and more solidary Portugal.
But even with this feeling of dissatisfaction, if we manage to invert the result in relation to past elections, it will be a victory. We also need a good result for the tasks I have mentioned in this interview. We are not an electioneering party, but we need the votes to be present in the institutions and to strengthen the Party also in this way.
